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23 August 2013 @ 01:25 am
Sherlock and Elementary, Side by Side  
An excellent comparison of both shows. I pretty much agree with everything even though I wasn't the biggest fan of Sherlock's Moriarty.

Just a WARNING that the article spoils everything for Sherlock and Elementary.

EDITED: Additional warning, the comments for the article start to get ridiculous. I'd advise skipping those. Just enjoy your shows.
 
 
 
aelfgyfu_mead: Joan Watsonaelfgyfu_mead on August 23rd, 2013 11:24 am (UTC)
Excellent! Thanks for the link!
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on August 23rd, 2013 12:32 pm (UTC)
Great article! I skipped over the Moriarity and Irene sections because I still haven't seen the finale of Elementary. I am thwarted at every turn ('oh look, you can download our app and stream on your TV. Oh, you live in Canada? Screw you, then.')

I do sort of feel that comparing them is moot, as they are two shows doing very different things that just happen to share characters with the same names. Elementary is a procedural, and Sherlock is a modern direct adaption of the original stories. I am happy to let them both do what they want and coexist peacefully.

But hell yeah to Sally vs Bell. I love that Bell does his job and isn't portrayed as an idiot for not being Sherlock.
aelfgyfu_meadaelfgyfu_mead on August 23rd, 2013 04:56 pm (UTC)
they are two shows doing very different things that just happen to share characters with the same names
Pretty much, yeah. There are a few points where you can compare them, but more where it doesn't work.

But hell yeah to Sally vs Bell. I love that Bell does his job and isn't portrayed as an idiot for not being Sherlock.
Yes! I wish we could see Sally being competent! I'm sure she must be: Lestrade has her on his team for at least 18 months (and they seem to have been working together a while before ASiP). And someone (was it you?) said that you don't make DS that young without being really good.

I think Bell is great.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on August 23rd, 2013 08:57 pm (UTC)
It wasn't me who made that point, but it is a good one! I think we do get a chance to see Sally being capable when she takes down Sherlock. Unfortunately, it's portrayed as a bad thing to do, but she did exactly what she should have given the information she had. Anderson was a bit more malicious about it, but any good cop who noticed all that would at least stop and say 'wait a minute'. Lestrade likes Sherlock, he won't make that connection because he's just as biased as her, but in the opposite extreme. It's Moriarty, he nearly outwitted Sherlock. It doesn't make you stupid to be manipulated by him, or evil.

And furthermore, the fact that Sherlock previously used Anderson as an assistant, and Anderson chose to end that relationship, and that he calls Anderson in when he needs him, suggests that Anderson is capable as well. He just doesn't like Sherlock, and that doesn't actually make you a bad person.

We also have to remember that we are seeing things from John's point of view, and coming in to the story where John does. All he sees is people who hate this reasonably nice, if a bit mental man who he's just met. They are going to seem malicious to him, because he doesn't have the full story. But by the third episode, he's making the same comments about Sherlock,but the fandom doesn't jump on him about that.

Er, sorry for the rant. I had unexpected feelings.
aelfgyfu_mead: Sherlockaelfgyfu_mead on August 23rd, 2013 11:46 pm (UTC)
I thought the things Sherlock said to Sally at the crime scene make it clear that he wasn't "reasonably nice"! I was a little disappointed that John didn't call him out for that, but then, John scarcely knew Sherlock and didn't know Sally and Anderson at all at the time. We don't hear Sherlock make remarks that nasty without John saying something after that episode, do we?
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on August 23rd, 2013 11:50 pm (UTC)
Well, I meant reasonably nice to John. Sherlock is actually fairly polite and cheerful with him. Blunt, and pompous but not necessarily rude. Kind and sweet with Mrs Hudson, relatively polite with Stamford and Lestrade. His interaction with Sally and Anderson is the first time John sees him actively being a jerk to anyone, and as Sally shouts 'the freak's here' as soon as he arrives, I could see how John might think him justified. John gets sucked in to it all fast. He's only being in his presence for maybe half an hour when we meet Sally, and as far as he knows, this is just his flatmate, not his future best friend. I could see how he would not step in at that moment.
aelfgyfu_meadaelfgyfu_mead on August 24th, 2013 12:02 am (UTC)
Good point: John has seen a very atypical set of Sherlock interactions when he meets Sally! He has no way of knowing that the way he treats Sally is more normal for Sherlock!
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on August 24th, 2013 12:09 am (UTC)
I've always been slightly baffled by how easy Sherlock is with John, right off the bat. I suppose you could say that he somehow deduced that John would be a good flatmate, or it's destiny, or something, but I would really like to know what goes through Sherlock's head in that lab scene. My only guess is that he's been through several prospective flatmates and he's decided he's going to have to be nice to the new one if he wants them to stay.

Somewhat random, but it relates to my 'they just met' point above: there's a really great thing in the French translation of the show, where Sherlock and John call each other 'vous' throughout Study in Pink, but by Blink Banker, they've moved on to 'tu', but, with the exception of Mycroft, Sherlock uses 'vous', with everyone else he meets. I think it's such a nice touch, and very indicative of the way Sherlock views people. There is John and there is everyone else.


aelfgyfu_mead: Sherlock and Johnaelfgyfu_mead on August 24th, 2013 12:26 am (UTC)
Yes, I've also been surprised by Sherlock with John. I still don't know why he even needed a flatmate; was he really hard up for money? (I think it's just fanon that Mycroft controls the trust fund, and even that there is a trust fund, but he's so posh it seems likely!) But he does let loose on John with his deductions, and I think he's a bit surprised immediately that John is impressed instead of angry, so that may be reason enough to be nice.

I love the French pronouns!
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on August 24th, 2013 12:32 am (UTC)
My own headcanon I've toyed with is that Sherlock has little concept of money, and has a bank account with a certain amount of funds in it, and if he goes into overdraught, Mycroft puts more money in, but Sherlock doesn't really notice because he doesn't care or only checks how much he has in there occasionally if he needs to make a big purchase or decide on something like how much rent he can afford, so the money coming in isn't noticeable. I don't see Sherlock as someone who looks at bank statements. So he knows he can't afford the rent, but when he blows huge amounts of money paying the Homeless Network or buying chemicals for experiments, Mycroft makes sure he can still afford the rent the next month.

He doesn't seem to understand why John needs a job for money, and throws his money around pretty freely, so I wonder if he just assumes it will be there because it always has been.

I also wonder if he might have blow some of his inheritance on drugs, and that his funds are monitored by Mycroft to make sure he doesn't squander the rest of it away.
formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on August 24th, 2013 04:54 am (UTC)
I also wonder if he might have blow some of his inheritance on drugs, and that his funds are monitored by Mycroft to make sure he doesn't squander the rest of it away.

I did wonder if perhaps Mycroft was actually in control of Sherlock's money soon after his drug habit. I can see Mycroft doing that for a time until he felt like it was safe to let Sherlock control his own finances again. The time in between when he was essentially giving Sherlock an allowance was probably hellish for both parties.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on August 24th, 2013 05:06 am (UTC)
I've often wondered if some of the animosity comes from Sherlock's drug use and Mycroft's response to it. Because if Mycroft has always been as protective as he is, it makes me skeptical that Sherlock could have been using without him knowing. And so I wonder if Mycroft's spying is in response to Sherlock's addiction, both worried about Sherlock and guilty that he didn't notice sooner.
formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on August 24th, 2013 05:10 am (UTC)
And so I wonder if Mycroft's spying is in response to Sherlock's addiction, both worried about Sherlock and guilty that he didn't notice sooner.

That's my general head canon. I don't think Mycroft was nearly this hands on about Sherlock's welfare as evident in the show until after his addiction.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on August 24th, 2013 05:19 am (UTC)
That 'danger night' line always struck me as someone who had been there before, and dealt with the worst of it. I could see him not realizing how bad it was until it was very bad, and then just conquering the world to try to fix it. Mycroft is the best big brother ever while also being the worst.
formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on August 23rd, 2013 05:20 pm (UTC)
'oh look, you can download our app and stream on your TV. Oh, you live in Canada? Screw you, then.'

Aw, man! Not cool, Internet.

I am happy to let them both do what they want and coexist peacefully.

Yes, I feel like the shows pulled different things from the Holmes canon to focus in on.

I also liked that JLM zeroed in on the idea that in the canon stories, Holmes genuinely liked helping people.

I love that Bell does his job and isn't portrayed as an idiot for not being Sherlock.

YES.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on August 23rd, 2013 08:47 pm (UTC)
I just think that each show is very good at what it's trying to do, and rather than that being terrible, as some people seem to oddly think, it is a good thing to have two quality shows based on a source material that I enjoy.

I don't entirely care for Bell as a character, I think he's a bit boring, but I appreciate that he is capable and not there to make Holmes look smarter. Elementary seems to remember that just because you are not a genius, doesn't mean your an idiot. Unless you are actually Sherlock, who probably views the world like that.
aelfgyfu_mead: Sherlock and Johnaelfgyfu_mead on August 23rd, 2013 11:47 pm (UTC)
I also liked that JLM zeroed in on the idea that in the canon stories, Holmes genuinely liked helping people.
Yes! Book Holmes is in some ways quite unlike BC's portrayal. Holmes cared about people and wasn't afraid of it.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on August 24th, 2013 12:11 am (UTC)
I do miss that about bbc!Sherlock. I love that you could write JLM!Sherlock doing something nice and not have to justify the hell out of it.

I would love to see Violet Hunter's story on Sherlock, but I'm not sure if it would be believable for Sherlock to just meet a young woman and decide to protect her. Also, I don't want Violet Hunter anywhere near Moffat.

On Elementary, however, I think Violet would be a great storyline.
formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on August 24th, 2013 05:02 am (UTC)
I love that you could write JLM!Sherlock doing something nice and not have to justify the hell out of it.

My starkest memory of this is when JLM!Sherlock bought Joan a spatula to replace her other one after it was violated. He was casual about it and the moment was used for mild humor. I somehow imagined that if BBC!Sherlock ever bought John anything there would either be a speech about it, an ulterior motive from Sherlock, or somehow it would get used as another joke toward their "They're not gay! Really!" humor.
formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on August 24th, 2013 04:59 am (UTC)
Holmes cared about people and wasn't afraid of it.

Holmes was perhaps a little, "I only care about the data. But feelings, sure, you can deal with that if you want. It's your choice." He didn't really actively scorn people the way Sherlock does about having emotions. Holmes was at worst either bemused or mildly annoyed at Watson's romanticized writings of their cases but shrugged it off since that was just Watson.

As the article mentioned, I like that JLM's Sherlock takes an active interest in cultivating Joan's skills as a detective. His teaching methods can be a bit all over the place but he does encourage her when she needs it with a mix of support and reprimand. I liked how he tackled her mounting self-doubt when she did her first case about the missing wife.